WTBA Foundations Training Program

Hi Everyone!
Hope you're all enjoying and getting what you need from these classes :-)

I was wondering who is doing Bagua and who is doing Taiji?
Or if you're doing both?

Got a great week 9 about to upload for you!

I'm doing Bagua and loving it. The Qi Gong is really great too - i didn;t expect that I would like Qi Gong that much but twice now I have felt my whole spine fall into line and sink; now I am doing Qi Gong daily trying to get that feeling again :)
The Bagua is great I really am enjoying and learning SO much.

I had learned the tai chi form previously (on a basic level) and was skeptical this course would just be a repeat. I was very wrong. I learn a lot from each and every class. Enjoying so much. I haven't ever done Bagua but I am learning by this course. So I am doing both the Tai chi and Bagua classes. Both you and your father preached the need to do the standing qigong and I would do it for a short while but then quit. The message has finally sunk in and I'm doing my standing qigong daily - so far I'm using the guided class every day but hope to graduate to doing it on my own soon.

Hello Eli, hello all. I am new here - been a subscribing member for around 3 weeks, although I have been a fan of Erle's since around 2009 when I first discovered his videos and have continued to follow your Moontagu YouTube channel over the years.

I wanted to learn some sort of Tai Chi for health reasons since I have a whole host of old injuries, niggles and annoyances - particularly with my knees after a long and varied career in the military and playing lots of sports. So a few years ago I got a copy of Erle's MTG1 Yang Cheng Fu instruction but found it too difficult. I kept coming back to it and getting a couple of moves further before running into physical difficulties again. I then resorted to learning and practicing an easier form (sorry folks - a dreaded short form I'm afraid!) and got myself to a stage where I could persevere with the YCF form. Now in my early 50's, I am still soldiering on (pardon the pun) with MTG1 and am nearly at the end of the second third. I am determined to finish it and continue practicing it.

I have been interested in the other internal arts and have dabbled with Hsing-I Chuan but it never clicked with me - or should I say that I never clicked with it? As for Bagua, I never even thought about attempting it, thinking that it would destroy my knees - so I remained a non-practicing admirer of the art.

All that changed for me recently though after watching a couple of your YouTube 'Tips of the Day' I watched your video on 'Bagua or Taiji?' and was convinced that what you said made sense (regarding knees). So I tried the first couple of moves which you introduced and then the next couple and found to my surprise that you were right - no different than Taiji on the knees... when done properly.

So, after a rather long-winded build-up in answer to your question Bagua or Taiji? I am learning both. I want to finish the YCF form and then see how everything feels before maybe starting the YLC form. As for Bagua I have finished the First Palm but need to work a lot more on my circle walking. I am doing Standing Qigong usually twice a day and I do my own warm-ups, stretching and strength and mobility work. I have adopted the Teacups exercise and that is proving to be a godsend for an old shoulder injury and old rib problems. Needless to say, I practice and train very sensibly and take my time. Your classes are fantastic Eli, I just hope I may one day be able to play catch-up! Thanks.

I agree with you. My logical reasoning told me exactly that - to use a small form as a stepping stone to reach bigger and better things.

Now I'm trying to decide whether to continue learning the YCF form to the end and then start learning it on the other side... or should I start to learn the other side now (near the end of the second third)? Given my slow progress.

What would you suggest Eli?

My advice is always to learn both sides at the same time, it's how I teach the form, as soon as we learn a new move we do it on the other side.
The longer you do something on one side the more awkward it will feel on the other side.
This is why in Bagua most people don't have any issue doing the other side as both sides are built into the normal way of doing the form, where is Taiji you can do the full form on one side.
The other thing is, how long does it take to learn one side? 2 years? 5 years?
How ever long it takes you to learn one side, makes that much time that you are doing an unbalanced form.

I suspected that would be your answer! Phew - I'll get cracking then.
Thanks for the reply.

Well, I've made a good start - the lessons are really helpful in that I can follow along on both sides. It is actually easier than I imagined. I have almost (re)learned the first third of the form on the opposite side. It definitely tests my concentration levels.

My wife and I have been doing your Taiji and enjoying it very much. We are only on week 4. We have very busy schedules and would rather repeat lessons and get the minutia correct than do something incorrect.

She has no interest in the Bagua, but I do. I have only completed the first week of Bagua and I am enjoying it very much. My right knee has been hurting me after practice however, so I haven't progressed much farther than week one in Bagua. I have been following instruction as far as twisting dantien area rather than knees, or at least think I am. I do have health issues, I suffer from MS, so it could be related.

Thanks Keith

Hello Keith, I don't know what kind of knee problems you have because of your MS but I can tell you what I have regarding knee problems. I tore my left knee cruciate ligament in two and it was repaired months later. The operation was a bit of a disaster and as a result I have arthritis. I have also had meniscus problems in both knees with keyhole surgery. All that was in the late 90's and ever since I have suffered with pain, annoyance and discomfort - not to mention all the grinding and crunching!
For me (see my above post) it has been a long road to where I am now - don't get me wrong I know that in the grand scheme of things a couple of dodgy knees aren't much compared to other problems in life, but it's not easy when all you want to do is train and get healthy.

So where am I with my training now? Well I am nearing the end of the Yang Cheng Fu Taiji form on the normal side and about half way through the second third on the other side. Bagua for me is secondary (at the moment) and is a very slow process - but I am really enjoying it and it compliments my Taiji.

For me personally what is doing my knees the world of good from Eli's lessons is the Qigong, Bagua circle walking and the Teacups exercise. I am a slow learner and it doesn't bother me if I need days or weeks before I can perform a move to the point where I can do it without pain (or at least a minimal amount).

Consistency is important. Even if I don't have time for a training session I will be performing some kind of drill while waiting for the kettle to boil or standing in a queue somewhere. Keep plugging away mate.

I have been concentrating on not moving my knees while doing the Bagua. I have seen much improvement, little to no knee pain.

I am just starting the walking the circle and don't have any idea what the teacup exercise is.

Thanks for all your input.

Cheers
Keith

One of the great pointers from Eli is to make sure that your foot lies flat without either side lifting off the ground. Basically keeping the weight centered with respect to the longitudinal and latitudinal axes of the foot. That makes a tremendous difference. If you focus on that aspect your knee will not get strained. Also if you inflame your knee, you can apply turmeric/curcumin dissolved in coconut oil. It saved me. One of knees developed bad osteoarthritis from years of abuse playing basket ball and not doing Taiji and bagua properly. I thought I was finished but topically applied curcumin restored functionality and eliminated pain. As a result I am training aggressively in both Taiji and bagua as well as playing basketball (not for a while due to COVID). Curcumin is a very very potent anti-inflammatory agent and also relieves pain. I published a paper showing that it stops the progression of arthritis in a mouse model of knee arthritis when applied topically. Beware it stains!